Paul Hutchinson on Mindset, Business Growth and Philanthropy

0:05 Welcome everybody. My name is Richard Wilson. This is the Family Office podcast if you're on our YouTube channel. Appreciate you being here. Uh I'm the founder of the Family Office Club and we have an exciting interview for you here today. We have Paul Hutchinson with us. He's the co-founder of a multibillion dollar investment fund, founder of the Child Liberation Foundation and Liberating Humanity, primary investor and executive producer on the movie The Sound of Freedom, which if you haven't seen that, you should go to Amazon Prime and watch that tonight. Uh it's really powerful movie. My wife and I watched it together. Um and he's led over 70 undercover child rescue missions. Personally, I don't know anyone else who has saved as many children or made so many onetoone impacts on children globally. So, we're excited to have Paul on stage with us uh earlier this year. Um he did an amazing job giving a talk. So, we're going to have him back for a fireside chat um at our upcoming event which is the family office super summit at the Ritz. So, uh welcome Paul and thank you for being here.

1:16 Thank you, Richard. super excited to spend this time with you and and your audience. Sure. So, um, tell me first about your your initial exit that you had from a business. What was kind of the the type of company and what was the story behind that? My early 20s, I I was actually going to be a doctor. I wanted to be a pediatric cardiologist and uh got in a major car accident, seven of the tendons in my hand and had to change directions and I so I went into business um had some mentors, had some amazing information that came in that helped me get started there that we can talk about later. But my first company um was a marketing company that helped people overcome anxiety and depression and and PTSD and addictions. a a lady by the name of Lucinda Basset had a program called the attacking anxiety and depression program and and it was the Midwest Center for Stress and Anxiety and I own Midwest Center marketing. We we had uh almost 50,000 people a month calling in off of the infomercial to get a workbook and an audio program to get help with overcoming these debilitating challenges that almost everybody deals with at some time in their life. and uh sold that company when I was 29 years old for $20 million. I most of it was in restricted stock, but I was rich on paper and

2:34 that's what was important to me at the time. And uh but I I uh I I've always had a passion for making a difference, a a big impact in the lives of other people. And in that space, you know, I couldn't think of anything more important than to help somebody break free of such debilitating challenges that that most of us are dealing with every day. Right. Interesting. Yeah. One of my early mentors was Eban Pagan, and he had a number of educational programs for CEOs, but then he created one called uh Cool, Calm, and Collected that addressed anxiety or stress, not just for CEOs, but for people in general. So, it seems like um something where there's there is a massive need out there since you're able to scale that. So, uh, to such a large scale, I guess. Um, so I know your history. So, I know that you got into real estate and building a multi-billion dollar real estate company. So, how did you go from selling, you know, solutions for addressing stress and anxiety into real estate? Because those things don't seem very connected with core of it other than the fact that uh, dealing with real estate causes anxiety. But right, I so I I I sold the company, had some money to work with, started investing in real estate, and I I um I realized if I didn't hire guys smarter than me, I was going to lose all my money in real

3:50 estate. I my I I uh I was on a stage the other day and I asked him, I said, "How much do you think that I made on my first real estate deal?" And everybody's throwing out numbers, you know, half a million, a million. No, I I lost a half a million dollars on my first real estate deal, right? and my my next one I lost another 150,000 and that was my dad's money right and so it was it was a challenge to try to figure that out but um in the beginning what had happened is my my company that I sold uh they they were buying some products out of Asia they they they needed some purchase order financing and so John Pennington and I put together a a company called bridge loan capital we were doing short-term assetbased lending hard money lending And we started out with with companies that that had a a sale to somebody like Best Buy, but they needed to pay the manufacturer in Asia. John knew how to make sure we didn't lose a whole container full of of of widgets from from China to the US. And uh and we charged we charged a hefty premium. We were charging almost 5% a month. We had a 60% per year. But in the beginning, it was our own money that we were working with and then some others. And then I um I I got invited to climb Kilimanjaro.

5:06 There was a you know a group of of CEOs and and in fact this guy called me he's his name is as um um Travis Travis called me up and he said Paul he said do you want to climb Kilimanjaro in Africa? And I'm like no I haven't even climbed Mount Olympus in Utah in my backyard. What would I do? He said well you know we're we're uh we're we're we're leaving in about four months. You got to give up all your Saturdays. It's going to cost you about $10,000. I'm like well then hell no. why would I give up my Saturdays, pay all this money, go climb a mountain in Africa? And he said, "Well, I'm bringing some of the top leaders that I've ever worked with." And he he starts going down this list of guys that have sold their companies for 200 million and whatnot. And about halfway down the list, I said, "Now now, when are we going again?" Because I I realized that spending the time with people of that caliber would would transform my life. And so, uh, on that mountain, one of the guys I met was a guy by the name of Doug Anderson. And Doug had done over $3 billion in real estate development. He had built nine Ritz Carltons and 20 schools and more high-end condos than anybody west of the Mississippi. And we we became really good friends throwing up at about 19,000 ft right on the mountain. And I I took him to lunch every single month for the next year. And after about a year, he said, "Paul," he said, "I really love what you and John are doing with your

6:23 with your bridge company." He said, "I I I like your energy. I'm going to sell out of my construction company and I want to be your partner. And when somebody like Doug says, I want to be your partner, you say, and I want to let you, right? Yeah. Bringing on guys like that. And so he helped us change over to to doing hard money lending on real estate, not just, you know, widgets coming from China, etc. But then in 2006, and this is so important for where we are right now in the market and everything else, you know, we we were this this amazing bull market for a long time and things were going well and everybody was making money in real estate. And I hired a guy named Don Hartman. Don's resume was the most impressive piece of paper I'd ever seen. He raised 14 billion to bail out the Asian debt crisis in the late 90s.

7:12 And and I mean he was he he was he was raising his family in Utah, but he was literally overqualified for everything there. He he jokes and says says, "Yeah, Paul found me walking around Salt Lake with an unemployed sign. I'll work for equity." But you know, so we brought him on, paid him a hefty six-f figureure income. Two months later, he comes into my office and he said, "Paul, we're in trouble." Now, this is late 2006, a year and a half before the 2008 crisis that that just ate everybody alive. He said, "We're in trouble." And I said, 'We, the the company, you know, Bridge Loone Capital. He goes, "No, we the country and pro probably the whole world." He says, "We're looking at a multi- trillion dollar problem, and if you don't change, you're going to be upside down with everybody in your space." He said, he said, "Lenders will be owners." He said, it was funny. He said, he said, "Paul, you're one of the best capital raisers I've ever seen, and John is phenomenal at working with the SEC and making sure that the fund structure is in place." He says, "You guys don't know crap about real estate." He said, he said, "You need to bring on some real estate adults if we're going to end up owning some of the properties." And he said, "And then he he laid out what was going to happen." He had all these third order polomial equations that were way over my head. And and and we restructured what we were doing. And

8:29 instead of doing bridge loans, we decided to go into investing in multifamily in in in large apartment complexes. And the reason behind it, he said, Paul, he says, there's there's certain types of of asset classes in real estate that are somewhat market agnostic that that during the good times and the bad times, if you're well-managed and you don't have a refinancing bullet and all this crap, you can you can pay out a pretty decent return. And one of those is B-class multif family. When you're in a good market, well managed, you're 97% occupied. During a down market, you maybe are 92. And as long as you you don't have to sell it in the down market as then you can you can pay out a decent return. As long as you're not stupidly leveraged, you can make it through those those times. And so that's when we switched over. We brought on a a power team of guys who knew how to manage that type of of asset. Ironically, their name was Bridge Property Management and we were Bridge Loan Capital. They had never run a fund before. We had never managed multif family before. So we kept the name Bridge and uh and Bridge Investment Group and grew that to many many many billions of assets under management.

9:38 Interesting. So did you keep the purchasing of receivables and did you keep the the bridge lending going or is a complete pivot and you left that behind or did you have three legs to the stool? No, we we at that time we did a complete pivot and and it's because you know we were we were lending on things by that time. A lot of our loans were were they were land, you know, there was a developer that that that you know, he had a bunch of his own cash in. He was waiting for the bank financing and whatnot. And, you know, the things that got hit the hardest during that crash was was some of the asset classes that we were in. We were incredibly grateful that Don saw that because we were in a bunch of land that all of a sudden they couldn't finish developing. We were in some pretty high-end residential uh properties and, you know, different different things like that. and we we would have absolutely got eaten alive.

10:29 In fact, you know, to be honest, we we got rid of most of those assets, but there were a few lingering ones that John and I continued to manage even into and through the crisis. We weren't taking any management fees, but our integrity to our investors of them knowing that we were maintaining that position as the GP and working through to the best of our ability to exit those those those assets was something that gained us tremendous credibility. And in the market when when the rest of the market lost 30 and 50% we didn't lose any principle we paid out a double digit return. And that's why in 200 after the 2008 crisis 2009 2010 we literally had a 48% IRRa for our investors. We were killing it because we were in the right place at the right time and and we we we operated with integrity when things were going bad.

11:21 Right. Right. Makes sense. the uh the number one thing that stood out besides just your mission and the scope of impact you've had from your talk on stage earlier this year was you going up and saying the most important real estate in the world is the 6 in between your ears and the more you know I've read 110 books that uh were authored by billionaires and I've interviewed 42 billionaires and the number of times that grit and managing your mindset and being confident in yourself and optimistic comes up is a crazy percentage of the time. So, you brought that up. I didn't know you were going to say that on stage. And, you know, what is it about your mindset that allowed you to scale a company and sell it for $20 million and then scale a real estate company to billions of dollars? I mean, what are like one to three nuggets there that you could share with somebody, no matter where they are in the world and and who they are, that would help them?

12:11 Um, many times people ask John, they say, "John, did you see the multi-billions from the beginning?" And and he said he said, "No." He said, "I was more of a realist." He said, "We'd we'd be in this office. It was so small that me and John would turn around and we'd bump elbows, you know, if we turn around the same time." And and you know, we'd had a deal where I needed we needed like $25,000 by Friday. Otherwise, we're going to lose the whole deal when I'm on the phone making calls, making calls. And and John John tells the story how Paul I hung up the phone, I turned around, I put my pinky by the side of my mouth, you know, the Austin Power style, and I said, "John, we're going to be a billion dollar fund someday, right?" And John said, "Paul, we need $25,000 by Friday." Right? Billions's a really big number. But then we had the conversation at the end of the day. I remember where where he said, "Paul, you you realize that neither one of us have the pedigree, the skill set, the background, anything to to manage a multi-billion dollar fund." And I said, "Yes. However, if we build it right from the beginning, we we we structure it in a way where we can attract the right people, then then that's exactly what will happen. And that that that is what happened. That's what brought in Don. You know, I remember when we we flew to Hong Kong to meet Don's old boss. His name was Do Bob

13:29 Morris. And Bob was the former CEO of Cityroup uh their investment bank. I mean, he was he was there. This is back when City was the largest corporation on Earth from a capitalization standpoint. And I remember we flew and we sat down at the desk and I have my pitch book. I have the private offering memorandum. I'm hoping that he's going to give us $20 million, right? And he pushes him across the desk and he says, he said, "Paul, I don't need to see any of that stuff." And I'm thinking, "Crap, that was a waste of a trip to Hong Kong, right?" He said, "I've been watching you for the last 6 months." And he points at me and he said, "I know more about your bio than you do." I'm like, "Oh [ __ ] I was on there." Right? He said, he said, "I am thoroughly impressed with what you guys have created, the foundation you have put together, the team you're putting together." He said, "I don't want to be a $20 million LP." He said, "I'd like to give you 300 million and I want to be wow a the biggest owner of the GP." And he wanted he wanted more than 50%. We actually turned him down, went back and forth over a few months. ended up coming on with that commitment, but not just the cash in with with him focusing full-time as one of our partners and then the credibility that I didn't have as a young kid. You know, I just sold some companies as an entrepreneur. Now, we have that credibility because we

14:46 build it with integrity from the beginning. And we saw it. We saw that we saw that vision. It wasn't it wasn't any kind of, oh, I don't think I'm good enough. Well, you know, of course I'm not good enough. I don't I don't have a JDMBA from Harvard, but I can put my efforts in in a way where I can create a foundation to attract people like Don, like Bob, and others. Right. Right. So, part of what I've heard so far in the interview is to do the right thing, don't use crazy amounts of debt, have high integrity, take care of your investors, don't be limited by thinking, oh, I didn't go to Harvard or we don't have billionaire or billion dollar pedigree behind us. Uh, don't let that limit you. But then also one of my mentors Sergeant Thomas always told me to to find a blue chip anchor investor and once you have the momentum of that just like Steve Schwarzman in his book uh what it takes he's a founder of Blackstone you know he went around and eventually found some Japanese oligarchs to back him and then everybody else backed him and then they they took off and it sounds like combination of all those things is at the core of what's made you successful uh despite even you and your partners looking at your own background and saying like oh you know like uh we don't have like the history to for sure make it happen, but you made it happen anyways, I guess.

15:59 Absolutely. And and I will say one of my keys to success, and you can um you can call this whatever, you can call it karma, you can call it blessings from God, call it whatever you want to. I made a decision in my early 20s that a large percentage of my money was going to go to making a significant impact in the lives of other people, not not waiting until I was insanely wealthy. In fact, I my mentor told me, he said, Paul, he said, make a decision that that number from now on is always over 10%. He says, the average person donates 2%. Millionaires actually donate less than 2%. He said, make that number 10, 15, even 20%. And you'll be amazed at at how much easier everything else is to to create. Now, I I told him this. I said, "Can I just wait until I'm wealthy to to start giving my money away?" I mean, I I wanted to be wealthy so I could be charitable. I just I didn't realize I should be charitable so I could become wealthy, right? But in reality, I can take a look at all of the charity events I went to, all of the connections I got from those, and and even things that that had nothing to do with the charity events. I truly believe that these one in a billion chances of meeting somebody like Don and meeting somebody like Bob and having some of these big initial investors coming in are all tied to the fact that I chose to give until it hurts

17:19 early on and you know the windows of heaven opened and there were blessings that were there and so that's absolutely a key to my success that I would I I would be remiss if I didn't bring up as part of the equation. Sure. Sure. How often does your philanthropy overlap with Christianity or how often does religion come into it just by the nature of the people you meet in philanthropy? I'm just kind of curious. I I will say this. I um you know, I I try to stay away from any very specific religious stuff, but but there's a you know, I've got a I've got a a closer relationship with Christ than I've ever had my entire life. But unfortunately, there's a lot of people that will use religion as a reason to trust them. And so, you know, they they create those those red flags when they, you know, throw a picture of Jesus behind them in their in their office when they're scamming people, you know.

18:12 And so I I I'm ultra cautious with stuff like that. But I I I will say this. I I will say that that uh whether you think whether somebody thinks that God is a mountain or a cloud or a universe or a Jehovah or whatever else, it doesn't matter. There's there's there's a higher power very interested in us doing good. and and in doing so there's this universal law of exchange so to speak wherein by doing good it's not just feeling good and being happy but and and and again you don't want to give money away and be charitable just so that you can make money but in reality that works you know that the financial rewards that have come back because of the fact that I'm a good steward with those financial rewards are are phenomenal and so so you know you can call it whatever you want to there. I uh but absolutely there there has to be just like in you know even in our our healing retreats even what we do in overcoming anxiety and depression and and and addictions and whatnot you know in the in the 12step program with with AA an acknowledgement of a higher power is paramount in your success. You have to understand that and if you don't you miss you you try to work through life on your own and with our own little you know minds and

19:30 whatever we're trying to create and it is super difficult. So you know if you are doing good and you're creating good then absolutely you should you should co-create with divinity and create anything you can possibly imagine. Sure. Sure. What point in your trajectory did you make philanthropy a high priority? Was that um really early on? Was it like once you were halfway to a billion dollars in assets? No, I was earning $2,000 a month, right? Okay. This is when my mentor told me. He said, Paul, he said, "Make the decision today that that's what you're going to do." And I'm like, he said, he said, "And I think that you should donate upwards of 20%." I'm like, "20%." I said, "I have to live on,600 a month instead of 2,000." He said, he said, "And then in addition to that, you should donate up to 20% of your time to making an impact." And that that was super difficult because but but I I tell people this, how does somebody become a partner, let alone a founder of a 20 30 40 billion investment fund? Well, you're not a University of Utah dropout, right? That's where I am. The the statistical probability of me being where I am is zero. The only way I can understand it is that I made that decision when I first started that I was going to give and make a a a powerful impact in the lives of others all the

20:49 way through even when it was only $400 a month. Right. Right. Got it. Interesting. Um, you know, I recently interviewed Dr. Robert Chelini, who's like the grandfather of influence and persuasion, and you said earlier you're one of the best capital raisers out there. You also get people recruited to your mission now in philanthropy. I want to ask you a question that I asked Dr. Chelini. What is the master key to influence? Whether you're convincing someone to donate a million dollars or convincing the CEO of City to back your real estate fund or a high net worth investor to put in $25,000 when you need it by Friday. What's the master key to influence in your mind? A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still. And a master salesperson, the the customer has absolutely no idea they were sold something. It it it uh there's questions are the answers in the process and in getting to know the person, finding out what their needs are, what's important to them, and then offering what you're selling as the solution to what they're wanting to create in their life. If if what's important to them is is cash flow or security or making an impact or whatever else. Find find those hot buttons with them. back when I was had the anxiety and depression. What's funny is the exact same skills that I used

22:07 very beginning selling children's videos at $20 a piece. And the same skills, they were the same skills that I used selling a a $2,000 personal coaching program. The same skills getting somebody to put $50,000 into a corporate credit program and then a half a million into my fund and then a hundred million into the fund, etc. It was it was number one me truly believing in what it was that I was selling. If I didn't believe in it, if I was out of integrity in any way, then then everything else didn't work. At least for me, because I I couldn't I couldn't be inauthentic in that. I needed to know that this was something that I would put money in that I my my grandma, etc. Then identifying what what their real needs are in that anxiety company. I told my guys that were selling coaching programs, if you bring up coaching within the first 10 minutes of your call, you're going to get docked on your pay, right? It can't be coming across as the reason why you're calling. You need to ask enough questions to understand them so that by the time you bring it up, it's coming across as a suggestion based on what you know about them, not the reason why you called. And that goes all the way through. You know, it's it's building the relationship, getting to know them well enough where where and and if after you get to know them, if your product, if your investment if if it's not a fit, don't be selling it to

23:25 them. Be be in integrity. But if it is a fit, once you've found enough information, then you can help them see why it's why it's a perfect fit. And then it's it's more their decision than it is yours in in getting them to partner with you. Okay. Got it. Interesting. Yeah. I mean, uh, one of my early mentors was Jeffrey Gimer, and he always said that sales is really just getting someone to take action on a path that's already good for them. Like, and then, uh, Robert Chelin's answer was that having an ethical reputation he thinks is the master key to influence. And you keep on bringing up integrity. like don't sell it unless it's high integrity and get to know them first and it's just a natural progression to what they want. So very much uh all three answers kind of mesh with each other pretty pretty naturally there. Um I want to ask you a bit about your child rescue work. So how did you specifically get started on your first undercover mission? You know I mentioned earlier that you have done over 70 of those to date.

24:19 That's correct. I uh my first one was was a little over 10 years ago, October of uh of 2014, and I got a phone call from our attorney general. He he knew I had donated a lot to child related charities. Um told me about child trafficking. It was a pretty dark subject. I didn't want to hear about it, you know. I mean, that's that's, you know, something you don't talk about at the dinner table, whatever. But he told me that human trafficking is the fastest growing criminal enterprise in the world. He introduced me to a a homeland security agent who uh was in Cardahana, Colombia and had identified some children. I was invited not only to help fund that but to play a role and that's what changed my whole life there. I I I had a a certain set of skills from a previous life that made me somewhat safe in a dangerous place. But the the the challenge was is that the the the traffickers had a piece of property they wanted to develop into a child brothel sex resort, kind of a Jeffrey Epstein island type of a thing. They needed a few million dollars to build it out.

25:21 They had connections with all these other traffickers and and the plan was this. They needed to get the the main trafficker to call the other ones and get them to bring all the kids together at the same place. And so the sting was set up where I would come down as me as a wealthy real estate investor. You know, it was funny. He he called me up and he I was I was at a at a conference in Atlanta, Georgia. It was a third generation multi-billionaire conference. I was pitching him on investing in my fund, right? And he called me up and he said, "Paul," he says, "There's over a hundred kids. I think we can rescue them all. I I need your help." And I I said, "Well, well, how much do you need?" You know, I thought he was a check and he said, "I need you. Can you be in Colombia in two days? I'm like, two days? I'm I'm in Atlanta. I can't even go home to change. I says, "What how what do I wear? What do you want? Who do you want me to I mean, what is it?" He says, "Well, you need to come as a wealthy playboy." Now, at the time of the call, Richard, I I look down. I've got a $50,000 watch on. I've got I've got $2,000 diamondstudded cuff links, right? I've got a suit that cost more than my first car, right? And ironically, the suit was was was super conservative on the outside and bright pink on the inside. Right. So, I'm like, I think I got the outfit. Right.

26:33 So, so two days later, I'm face to face with the most evil people on the planet selling kits. And uh you know, in the movie Sound of Freedom, my character turned down Jim Cavisel. I don't want to go. you know, and it and and it wasn't until they gave this this picture of this little 11-year-old girl to my driver that I changed my my my mind. In real life, I was already there. I'm face to face with these traffickers, and one of them leans forward and gives me this picture on his phone of this child. And at that moment, everything hit me. I'm like, this is a real traffic child, 11-year-old that's being sold. And it it just it broke me down. And I'm like, I I will I will I will commit whatever funds necessary to rescue that child and bring her home. And then the real impact for me was two weeks later when we were actually in the sting itself. They had brought all of these children and and I'm sitting on a chair. I'm, you know, imagine yourself sitting down right now and this little girl standing up is no taller than I was sitting down. And I'm looking eye level at her. And I, all I could see was fear.

27:38 And I made a commitment to myself, to that child, to God that I was going to dedicate my life to eradicating that evil from the face of the earth. and and uh and the most beautiful moment of my life was after the agents came and stormed the party, arrested everybody, child protective services people came in with the children and they started laughing and singing with the children and that that sound of freedom was the most beautiful sound that I ever heard. I started crying. That's why we named the movie Sound of Freedom. And and um at that point I I turned to one of the agents and I said, "I I've spent my whole life making money, making rich people richer. I I literally I I I says, "I want to make a difference." I I I I I had a Ventadora white convertible, a Ventadora Lambo that that would been on my vision board for a while. I was there. I had hit the goals that I wanted. I was going to buy that in the next couple months. I said, "I'm not going to buy that car. I want to I want to write the check instead. I want to help. What can I do?" Right? And at that point, I was told that that he said, Paul, he says, "There's a huge demand for things like this that are coming from guys with big egos and big checkbooks." He said, "I can't teach my Navy Seals how to how to wear a $50,000 watch and negotiate a multi-million dollar deal." And he said, "I don't know of any ultra successful business owners who've had the training that you've

28:56 had." Right? He said, "If you're willing to be the bait, I'll change your whole life." So, that was that was the first one 10 years ago. completely changed my outlook on life as a whole. Now, I will say I was I wasn't the Paul that I am now. Even then, even after that, for a couple years, I was I wasn't Paul Hutchinson. I was Paul effing Hutchinson, right? I I had a basketball court in my basement. I had 10 bathrooms in my house. I had eight private suites. I had two helicopters and a plane. I mean, and and it was ego ego energy. and and and but over the next couple years and some of the healing things we can talk about, I completely transformed that energy. But in the beginning, that was necessary for those rescue missions. I needed to come in as a guy with a big ego and a big checkbook. And that's what the traffickers were attracted to. And boom, that ended up being the largest child rescue that we ever did. 127 children that day.

29:51 Wow. Amazing. Yeah. There's uh one quote stood out to me from the movie and then I've got a question for you. But uh the quote was something about how, you know, if somebody produces drugs, they can sell it one time. Uh you know, if you kidnap a child, you could sell it five times a day. And that shows the lure of of the industry. Um unfortunately. So I'm just wondering like you're so closely connected to this. If you had children that were young girls, would you even take them to countries like Thailand on vacation? If you did, would you hire private security? Would you put GPS trackers in them? Like I'm just like family offices listening to this or anybody. Absolutely. Well, well, here's here's what's important to understand and especially with the family offices that are listening that the chances of your child being kidnapped from a healthy home and taken in a container into another country like what you see in the movie. That's very, very, very slim.

30:43 Now, yes, those things happen. However, you know, the the purpose of the movie was to get people talking about this so that we can figure out real solutions. Well, to get real solutions, we need to understand really where the problem is. People leave the movie Sound of Freedom. They're like, "Okay, I want to do something. I want to go fix this." You know what? The worst thing you can do is go to Colombia and try to go rescue children. You're going to get shot. You're probably going to get arrested, right? The best thing you can do is go home and hug your children. And people are like, "Well, how does that help hugging my kids?" Well, the majority of children that are being trafficked, that are moved around outside of their home, the majority of those children come from broken homes, a broken foster care program, runaways. And so, by keeping a strong nuclear family, you do more to protect your children than anything else. Now, the other thing that's incredibly important is this. Besides the 8 to 12 million children that are being trafficked, there's hundreds of millions of children dealing with the same kind of trauma in their own homes, in their own neighborhoods.

31:47 In fact, the majority of children that are sold for SCEX that the the majority of children that are sold for that sleep in their own beds at night and their parents don't even know that's going on. Parents need a relationship with your children where they can very comfortably come to you and say, "Hey, Dad. Hey, Mom. I I I don't I don't like it when you tell me that I have to hug Uncle Harry because, you know, he he touches me weird and says we should have secrets outside of you." Or, "I don't like going to this friend's house because her her her brother's taking pictures of us and now he's telling me he he's going to use those against me if I don't do more things with him and his friends." Or or or I don't like this babysitter because she's showing us pornography and tells us that we should have secrets. These are these are all grooming behaviors and we need as parents to have a comfortable a relationship with your children where they know where their privates are. They know where the boundaries are and they can very comfortably come to you and say when something's off. That's the best thing that you can do to help protect your children. Now, in addition to that, if you are traveling somewhere, don't have your kids have an open social media where they are posting where they are.

32:51 Because I've we've taken down so many predators who have identified their victims using social media and identifying where those kids are going to be, where they are right now, whether they have parents with them, etc. So, okay. Okay. Got it. But, uh, in general, going going on vacation, uh, in foreign countries is not something you should be overly paranoid about. I mean, you look at all the statistics. I mean, maybe it's more likely than in America something happens, but it's still very rare that it it would happen, right? It is. And the best thing that you can do, and I talk about this in my my book, uh the the sound of freedom book in detail, how one of the best things that you can do is actually give your kids some skill sets. It it it is it's it'll last their entire life by just you know putting them into some some Krav Maga or some some you know jiu-jitsu type classes and and giving them that confidence where in any situation that way you don't have to be a helicopter mom and you know have have a nanny follow him to school every single day.

33:48 Give them some confidence. And uh you know I have a lot of my podcasts where I interview some one of my one of my trainers one of the the top edge weapons and situational awareness trainers in the world is named Steve Tranni. He trains the secret service and FBI and others. And on that podcast on liberating humanity, he talks in detail about the importance of teaching your children situational awareness and and and understanding how to not just be walking around with their heads in, you know, their earphones on and their heads in their phones, but just simply being aware of what's going on will make them look like less of a target and be less of a target. Right. Right. Awesome. Yeah, great advice. Appreciate that. And um you know, how did you get it's not like you're in the business of pumping out movies every couple of years. So how did you get this independent film to do over $250 million in the box office? Like what was the creation distribution of the film? Like do you have any notes on that or something you want to share related to that?

34:44 Sure. I mean I'll tell you as an investor the probably one of the stupidest investments you can make is into the film business. the returns are pretty slim and none. And uh but I didn't I didn't invest in it as uh to to make millions and millions of dollars. I invested because I knew we couldn't take millions of people to see what we had seen, but we could help millions of people feel what we had felt. And and uh so we we put together the film that the budget was was under $14 million in creating the film. And and in the beginning, we went into Hollywood, went to Sony and Lionsgate and Paramount. They were interested in the the the story line, but they wanted full literary control. And you know, they could have changed things, put an operator in a precarious position, whatever else. And so we we know we wanted the truth of what had happened on these missions. And so so we decided that we would take it to the people by the people. I was the primary investor.

35:38 We we we brought the the guys up to my private cabin to, you know, write the script for a few weeks and everything else. And then we finished the film. And then at that time it took five years for distribution. Literally, Richard, for for the next three or four years, I thought that I had lost all that money. It was just, you know, cuz it literally was as valuable as a as a as a cup holder, right? You know, you put your cup on your CD, that's about what it was worth at the time. And I thought, am I the only Are we the only people that think this is a good movie? Because we were shut down by Hollywood and big media, everybody. Nobody would take distribution. we were everywhere was just completely blocked. And uh and so in u early last year, in May of last year, I think I did my first podcast. I had done 10 years of undercover work.

36:28 And I had no social media, nothing outside of that. And and um and I did my first podcast, got shared about a 100,000 times in the next few months. And uh very soon after that, we were able to sign a contract with Angel Studios and which was great. Now, it wasn't my doing. There was the team was all trying to, you know, making phone calls and see what we can do. But Angel Studios had an audience already that were that were conservative uh movie goers that that got behind causes that were somewhat anti- big media already. And and so that movie got the traction that it did because of millions of good people that say, "No, we're we want we want to see this. We want to see what's going on. We're not going to allow Hollywood to dictate everything that comes into our homes. We're going to decide what it is we're going to watch. And indeed, it became the number one independent film in the in the world.

37:22 Right. Right. Right. And I guess since it's related to that uh PD list and tapes was going to come out and blow people up, or is that never going to happen in your opinion? Well, we would all hope that the the Jeffrey Epstein le list would come out and blow people up. You know, that's that's the the challenge is this. Um, I believe that the feds knew about P. Diddy's escapades for years. I mean, he had been doing these for like 16 years, these freakoff parties and whatnot. And you know, with with the fact that the NSA has got every single message on our cell phone already in their database, you can't tell me that that this information wasn't already out there. And unfortunately, a lot of things like this, they wait until they have to make a public appearance and taking things down. the most valuable thing that they have is those tapes, you know, and yes, there's going to be a lot a lot more people that JLo's going to going to be outed. There's going to be, you know, uh there's there's so many actors. I I used to be a huge Will Smith fan. You know, I loved him as an actor. And then, you know, all of a sudden, I realized, okay, this is why his wife left him and these are the parties he's attending. You know what? That's not the type of energy and mentor that I want for my kids, etc. And and back to the Epstein list, I you know, I'm just going to throw this out there. Um

38:39 if if you were an agency that wanted to completely control the votes of a senator, of a congressman, of a federal judge, you want to control those votes forever, right? You get that kind of blackmail on them. you you get them on film on an island doing things with, you know, and that that that kind of blackmail will will control those votes forever. And so why would they want that list to be out that gets out? We vote all these guys out of office and we put Exactly. They lose their leverage. So I'm just going to call what it is. There's there's a it's a sad world when when the majority of of our politicians have some kind of dirt on them and can be controlled in some way. And so, right. Right. Well, be interesting uh how the next six to nine months go or next next three months go related to that. Right. So, interesting times. Um okay. Well, just one or two quick more questions then we can wrap it up. But, um in anything you've done, you really don't think small. If somebody had spent their whole life building a company and selling it for $20 million, which you did in your 20s, they would probably say, "Oh, that was a big success, right?" And but you've gone on to do multiple big things after that, build a multi-billion dollar real estate firm, make a number one independent movie. So,

39:58 um, let's talk about what your plans are now for a global solution to what you're most passionate about. Um, besides the Child Liberation Foundation, you have a new organization called Liberating Humanity. Um, so tell me a bit about like the personal transformation retreat retreats that you do and kind of what your your passion focus is right now and and how you're scaling that in a big way and and um I love the question because indeed I I don't I don't think that I was put none of us were put here to play small on this earth, right? You know, there's there we have we have infinite potential and if I'm going to make a movie, I want it to to make a global impact. If I'm going to have a an investment fund, I need to have a B behind it, you know, billions. And and um I truly believe that the world is ready to break free of its toxicity. I really do. I after 10 years of undercover work, I realized that there's more kids being sold today than there were 10 years ago. And I I realized if if my goal is to eradicate child trafficking, I'm not doing a very good job doing undercover work. And somehow we need to we need to take away the demand. We need to cure the illness, the toxicity, the evil that's in this world that's leading us down this path where that's even a thing in any way. And you know, back to that number of one in every four women that you know have been

41:15 a victim. These are this is a this is a a dangerous this world is a dangerous place for children all around. And and we need to each take a look in the mirror and say, what do we need to do to really help fix that? Well, well, what that looks like is is is what I call an elevation of global consciousness. It's a it's a releasing all of those things that do not serve us anymore, that whatever happened in our past, whether it was things that we did or things that were done to us, all of them can be released. We can be forgiven. We can break free of that. We need to come to a relationship with God. We need to be in a place where we can really connect and release those things. I have a I have a book that I'm writing called Are You Listening? Not with my not with my hand on my ear, but are you listening with my hand on my heart?

42:05 Because I believe that every one of us were born with the ability to feel and recognize that spirit of truth. Every one of my undercover missions, we were being led by a greater power and finding where those kids were and and what we need to do to keep safe. Well, in our own lives, we each have to look in the mirror and say, "How am I adding and contributing to the negativity in this world?" Like I touched on earlier, the me 10 years ago wasn't the me today. I was I had these, you know, I was I I literally had parties in my basketball court in my basement. There were 150 half-dressed girls and NBA stars and all this crap. It was negative. It was toxic. I was in in unhealthy relationships all the way around. and and I got a phone call from two of my undercover operators and they said, "Paul, do you trust us?" And I said, "Yeah, I literally trust you with my life, you know, undercover work." They said, "Well, you need to come to this transformational retreat.

43:01 It'll be the most impactful two or three days of your entire life." Now, that says something. You know, I I walked across Kohl's with Tony Robbins standing by my side type thing, right? I I've I've been to transformational things and I'm going to drop a bomb here, but I'm just going to throw it out there because I think it's important for people to know. Um, back in the late60s, President Nixon decided he was going to throw a bunch of stuff under the bus and classify a whole bunch of what I call tools as schedule one drugs. Okay? So, I was told my entire life that that psychedelics were as dangerous as cocaine. that, you know, magic mushrooms, you could go to jail just as long as as as you did if you had cocaine in your pocket. And so I thought they were incredibly dangerous. The truth is they are safer than table sugar. There's never been a case of addiction, never been a case of overdose. However, this is vitally important. I actually just sent a text yesterday to RFK to Kennedy because I know that he's going to to decriminalize a lot of these things and that can be very dangerous if not done correctly. because I'm not a fan whatsoever of somebody going to a rave party and getting high on mushrooms.

44:11 However, when used with a guided meditation and a and a trained facilitator, there is nothing more powerful in helping people overcome anxiety, depression, PTSD, addictions, releasing childhood trauma, nothing more powerful. And I know I come from a a space of knowledge in that space. That's what I did for 10 years in my early 20s with my company and helping people with that cognitive restructuring. And so since that time um we me my wife my daughter we become master facilitators. We have hosted and facilitated now 62 guided meditation plant medicine healing retreats where people do a fully immersive transformational healing experience. Now I again I'm not a fan of somebody going to their buddy's house and have some music on and whatever else but when used correctly I can and that's what transformed me.

45:08 I I my very first experience was the most beautiful horrific experience of my life showing me pure empathy. I Richard I could feel in every cell of my body I could feel the pain that my children felt when I cheated on their mom. I could feel the pain of every employee that I had had spoken to in an unkind way. But then at the same time, I could feel that perfect empathy of that joy of the children that we participated in the child rescue missions, etc. And and what it taught me was to be incredibly aware of how my actions are affecting everybody and everything around me. And and then from there, I went into a place of learning learning how to be truly present and releasing some childhood trauma and and etc. etc. So, I'm a huge proponent of that. Uh we host the the healing retreats and we're expanding that globally um okay in in other countries as well and helping to change the perception of those tools and the laws around them so that people can use them to break free of PTSD and addictions etc.

46:15 Sure. Sure. Makes sense. Yeah. I have a friend that just went through it with you I think last week or the week before and said it was amazing and uh many of my friends were there actually. Uh I saw a bunch of pictures of people uh saying hi. So um that's awesome. So what what is a way that someone could help make an impact through you or connect with you if they have questions, if they want to donate money to something you're working on, get your books or come to a retreat. What's the best way to reach out? Would love that. Would love that. They can. The foundation is the Child Liberation Foundation. You can go to liberatechildren.org and uh get information there. You can donate $10 a month. You can donate $1,000 a month. you can be a freedom fighter and do a percentage of your of your company's profits and be a big part of that. Um I uh I I'm speaking at your conference. I'm speaking at a bunch of others over the next few months and if if people have big audiences that I can come and share uh business principles and and charities type stuff is is super impactful. Just being able to get that voice out there as well. Uh they can connect with me. Uh they can go to you can find me anywhere on social media just by typing liberating liberating humanity and it comes up on all the social media channels and and you can go to liberating humanity.com or if that's hard for people to remember if you remember the movie sound of freedom just go to soundfreedombook.com and it'll pull you right into liberating

47:34 humanity where you can pre-order the book and everything else there as well. And I would be I would be honored to be able to connect with any of the good people in this network. In fact, with your network, I don't give this away big public stuff, but with the family offices that are part here, if somebody wants to reach out with to me directly, just just email me at paul liiberatechild.org. Awesome. Great. Appreciate that. If anyone um needs that email besides just rewinding this, just uh feel free to reach out to me. I'll connect you to Paul. And then uh December uh 10th to 12th, we're hosting our family office super summit, and Paul is going to be one of our fireside chats there where I'm going to be interviewing him on stage. So, um, please check out that event as well at familyoffices.com. But appreciate you being here, Paul. I know I've been, uh, connected for quite a while and, um, it's awesome to see the focus and intent you have and the, um, obvious fulfillment you get from the mission that you have. Most most people are passionate about business and scaling and kind of leave it mostly at that level and they're very private about their impact. And you're the exact opposite of that. So, you really stand out uh, compared to most other family office folks that I work with for that reason. And so I appreciate your time here. Any any last comments before we sign off?

48:45 Truly truly grateful. Grateful for your time. And you know, to that last note, it's let your light so shine among men that they can see your good works. So it's it's okay. It's okay to show the good that you're doing in the world because it will inspire other people to do the same and be a part of what you're creating. So thank you, Richard. Incredibly grateful for you, for what you've created, for your audience allowing me to share today. Great. Thank you, Paul. Take care.